M/S somewhat ‘splained

In answer to a question at lostoverture.com, I said:

M/S = mid/side

You record the mid signal with a cardoid or similar and pan it up the middle.

You record the side signal with a figure 8.

You then clone the side signal and phase invert it and pan each track (the original and the phase inverted) up the sides.
If you play just the mid signal, you have mono.

If you add the sides to it, you add more “stereoness”, more room.

If you collapse the mix to mono, the side signals cancel and you are left with the mono.

You can make adjustments by varying the left and right signals vs. the middle, and vs. each other, and by panning them; it’s a phasing trick.

As well, using a omni for the mid, or the sides is a option, or you can use a hyper-cardoid for the mid, and use matching or different types of mic’s (ex., ribbon vs. condensor, etc.)

Trad M/S has you stack the mics vertically, so they are equidistant from the sound source in order to control the phase differences you get from distance; hence, my little stand is non-trad, not “accurate”, but still a EZ, useful effect.

More M/S stuffs

FWIW, and a trick I have posted before, sometimes I mic a recorded track played onna monitor in M/S …

While I have done that on drum tracks, etc., I find it mostly useful on single rhythm or lead guitars.

I intend to try both (the re-mic and the “sorta M/S” while recording) on some mono-amp’d keys tracks, also.

I love M/S (actual, “trad M/S”, if you will Twisted Evil ) on drums, but my drummer hates it. Probably because I over-used the separation the few times we tried it …Sad

“Not true M/S”

…, someone said about my prior post at TOMB, to what I responded:

 

I understand and agree, 100% – I could (should?) have called it “sorta M/S” or something, altho’ I did not call it “M/S”; but mebbe I was unclear.

Obviously, it is not accurate in sound or time or space or “phase” or whatever, and not a true example of trad M/S, which, as I said (so typo’d) is a PITA to set up.

That said, it sounds cool and it is “sorta M/S” to the extent that the side channels are inverted copies and cancel in mono, and it sounds anywhere from roomy to ridiculously separated, and the best part is it’s easily set-up and repeatable and (with two performances) symmetrical in that the mic’s are locked in place on the stand, in the “sorta M/S” position.

It is, I submit, close enuff for rock-n-roll guitar, if only as a effect.

Anywhat, feel free to ignore it, but mebbe try it first (or just listen to the above link) if you see the stated advantages – especially the ease and repeat-ability of set-up – it really sounds pretty cool, IMNSFHO. Twisted Evil

Mic’in’ in M/S made EZ


I like M/S, especially on guitars, what I know is weird.

But it’s a PITA always trya set it up, so I just put two CAD M179’s onna stand with the front set to hyper-C and the back set to figure 8 and, damn if it ain’t work good!

Here its is from the top:

Here it is in use:

You can hear it on the rhythm guitar, here.

The Friday Project: “Laundry”

Laundry
c. ’12 The Friday Project

Look at all the dirt, look at all the stains
I know lookin’ at alla that causes you pain
It’s gotta be clean, no inbetween
It’s gotta smell like summer rain

Look at all the creases, look at the bad folds
I know lookin’ at all that gets real old
It’s gotta be neat or its incomplete
It’s gotta be smooth, so we been told

Ch: Don’t take it away, don’t take it from me
Baby, please don’t cut my laundry

It’s important to you, so it’s important to me
It’s like a clean-skinned face, what you wanna see
It’s gotta be right, or we’ll have a fight
It’s gotta be just how ya want it to be
Ch: 2x
SOLO
If there’s any holes, you can’t invisbly mend
Than it’s to the rag-bag that you will send it
It’s gotta look new, it’s gotta look good
It’s gotta look, like you say it should
Ch:
Look at all the dirt, look at all the stains
I know lookin’ at alla that causes you pain 2x
Ch: 2x

Drums: Krister-Yama’s-Zoom H2
Bass: HohnerHdls-Brick-160XT
LdVoc: GAP D1-Eureka
BV’s: AKG D5-Eureka
M/S RthmGtr: SG-M8E-M179-fig8-Summit
SG-M8E-M179-hyperC-ISA1
LdGtrL SG-M8E-Shure SM63L-ISA1
_________________
TFPTHDvlaymanblog

Thye Friday Project: “Good Man (He’s a)”

PostPosted: Tue 25.09.12, 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The Friday Project (latest) Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post  Report Post

Good Man (He’s a)
c. ’12 The Friday Project

I’m feelin’ kinda stupid, yeah
I’m feelin’ rather dumb,
I know that I ain’t no Cupid, but
I never thought you’d think you hafta run
CH: He’s a good man, he’s a
good man
I don’t understand
Yer reluctance

You and me been like, friends a long time
You and me can talk about anything
You and me don’t ever cross that line
And I thought mebbe you would see
CH:
If you feel like it just ain’t right
Well, I’ll tell ya what it’s still early in the
night
Go back out there after ya fix yer hair
Join us back in the candle light
CH:
What am I to do, what am I to do with you?
I got her, too, me and her an d him and you
A double date and I’m payin’ the freight
Shit, I thought you’d like him
CH:
SOLO
I’m feelin’ kinda stupid, yeah
I’m feelin’ rather dumb,
I know that I ain’t no Cupid, but
I never thought you’d think you hafta run
CH: He’s a good man, he’s a
good man
I don’t understand
Yer reluctance

Drums: Krister: Yama’s-R16
Bass: HohnerHdlsJazz-Brick-dbx160XT
LdVoc: KSM27-Eureka-L
RthmGtrs: SG-M8E-AKGd5-ISA1
BV’s: PL5-Eureka
LdGtrs: SG-M8E-SM63L-ISA1
_________________
TFPTHDvlaymanblog

The Friday Project: “Cellphone”

For the cabinetpin.com 9-20-12 challenge.

Cellphone

c. ’12 The Friday Project

150 dollars for a monthly ticket
I think that’s about 40 beers
Every month I buy another damn ticket
Damn near 2,000 dollars a year

CH: What do I get besides the plastic seats,
the shitty heat and bad air?
I get to listen to your cellphone speech and
even tho’ you don’t care, I stare
holes in the back of yer head

I bring my headphones and some punkish
rock
to distract from yer incessant talk
I crank to 10 to and numb my ears
And over that I still hear you

As I board this morning with my nice
breifcase
I’m so concious of the pistol’s weight
Need I give warning before I shoot your
face?
Or shall I do it from behind, yes

CH: What do I get besides the plastic seats,
the shitty heat and bad air?
I get to listen to your cellphone speech and
even tho’ you don’t care, I stare
holes in the back of yer head

CH: What do I get besides the plastic seats,
the shitty heat and bad air?
I get to listen to your cellphone speech and I
reckon you’ll carere, before I shoot a
hole in the back of yer head

Drums: Krister-Ysamas-R16
Bass: Alvarexz-Brick-dbx160XT
Vox: KSM27-VC1Q
Gtrs: SG-T2-Microcab-Summit
_________________
TFPTHDvlaymanblog

The Friday Project: “Ain’t Anything”

Ain’t Anything
c. ’12 The Friday Project


This is not a song for anyone to dance to
This is not a song for you to try to sing
This ain’t no virtuoso performance, no
This ain’t anything

This is not some hot hit on the radio
This is not all cool and hip and exciting
This ain’t no love song to hear by candle
glow, no
This ain’t anything

This is not a song for the ages
This is not a song for the reckoning
This ain’t no “My Back Pages”, no
This ain’t anything
Bridge

This was not a song for anyone to dance to
This was not a song for you to try to sing
This ain’t been anything you’ll ever hear
again, no
This ain’t been anything

Drums: krister-yamas-R16
(OH’s-AT4040;Snr-Beta58)
Bass: Alvz-Brick-dbx160XT
RthmGtr: F100-BadRickie-SBmod-ISA1
LdVoc: KSM27-Summit-RNC
BV’s: RE320-Summit-RNC
LdGtr: SG-Trdmrk10-ADK A5.1V-ISA1
_________________
TFPTHDvlaymanblog

Recording Drums

Aiight, I’m just gonna tell you what I would/do do.

Snare: I like a 57 on the snare as much as the next Neanderthal, but I reco using a different mic either top or bottom.  I usually do – I change snare mic’s like gurrlfriends, about every cuppla sessions.  Lately I been digging the Beta58 because it’s a solid, smooth, predictable sound what takes EQ and FX well.  It’s also kinda boring but gets a good sound all by itself, onna on-drum clamp (many hate them, but I like it for convenience and speed of set-up) on the front of the snare (across from Krister) pointing 1/3 from center, about 2″ up and slightly off axis.  I also like to mix and match various cheapo mic’s (often AKG’s) on top with a 57 on the bottom, and vicey-versey. When using 2 snare mic’s, remember to check phase.  I like to shave a few dB with a 4@1 slow compressor – I tend to use the same compressor and settings on top and bottom.

Floor Tom: I’ve tried a buncha mic’s here, and RE320 and MD421 II are good and setch, a 57 works, I have a mediocre Fusion mic (F2?),  … I like the Sennheiser E503 (same as E603, but black) the best, with a nylon clip, 2″ offa the drum – since I got it, it’s all I use. (I would like to try a ATM 250, tho’.)  I keep thinkin’ to try the SM7B or Peavey 520i, but the 503 sounds so good, the perfect boom. (Compress like OH’s, or smash like sitting onna muffin.)

Kick: IMO, like the snare or yer fave brand of condumbs, it can be a very personal choice.  I use a Senn 602 with the screen cover entirely inside the 6″ front hole, pointed in the area of the beater, pillow in the drum.   Your choice sounds good to me, altho’ in the mix I’d be compressing it more (4-12@1 fast, taking mebbe 9dB off), and riding it higher.

Hat: don’t like hat mic’s.  I get all I need from the OH’s and the room mic, see below.

Rack Toms: see above, and below.

OH’s:  I have gone thru a buncha methods on OH, and recently gone back and re-used and re-mixed some drum tracks done in different ways. Initially, I used Recorderman, with some Digital Reference 57 knock-offs, then I used 57’s.  I like Recorderman’s imaging, the set-up looks cool, and I used small dynamics because the room was splashy (concrete basement, irregular sized, but then about 50′ x 30′.)  Next, I went with SDC’s, some Beta Green 4.1’s were OK, kinda harsh, then some Studio Project C4’s, what were better.  I tried those in Recorderman, spaced-pair, Glyn Johns and coincident, and ORTF.  Now I use AT4040’s in spaced-pair about 6′ up and 3′-5′  in front (lightly compressed), and them is just lovely; I’ll say more below.  I note our space now has a 2″ thick reed rug, a huge couch and recliner, and a 4’x4′ footstool, and wallboard on the walls and ceiling, and the kit is in a corner pointing out at a 90 degree angle and right at a doorway to a 20’x12′ fecund room whose doorway I put the room mic in.

Room: I always try for to have at least one room mic, even if it’s just an open vocal mic, or an unused floor-tom mic.  Whatever is available is often useable, 57’s, 58’s, crappy AT’s; I find a Chinee ribbon excellent because it’s always useful and I try to place that about 12′-20 feet out, mebbe 6′ up.

Mix: There is a concept that helps to keep in mind, altho’ it’s not exclusive in definition.  Generally then, yer OH’s is the main drum sound, or they is the fill.  If the former, you get the OH’s sounding best as you can, then reinforce the kit submix with the close mic’s.  More often, I get my main drum sounds with the kick-snare-floor toms individually gated, smashed, EQ’d (generally just pass filter), limited and panned.  Then I use the OH’s (smashed and limited, sometimes hi-passed) as fills to bring in the cymbals and rack toms.  I do this because Krister really works his hats hard, and so I need to control them via the OH levels.   I tend to do the American pan, putting the floor tom about 8:30.  I then use the room mic (sometimes shifted back a tenth of a second or so and usually – not always if I want Bonham – hi-passed) just audible and panned mebbe 12:20 to bring the hi-hat more into location. It’s subtle, but it works!

Other shite: I have used M/S on occasion and loved it, altho’ only with cheap mic’s;  Krister, however hated it (probably due to my exaggerating the stereo spread too much), and since we don’t have a lot of experimenting time …   I have messed-up and lost a OH track before, just had one, and that was cool in that I had a deeper room mic.  I successfully used the two as OH’s, panned to suit, and as room mic’s, panned at about 11:00 and 1:00, with the snare and kick shifted enuff to keep ’em centered. I have a Sennheiser boundary mic that I’ll use someday, and a MXL 9000 tube mic for kick or room …  I note that using the Zoom R16 I have but two phantom powered channels and typically use them and 3-4 un-powered; I do have a outboard power box and a small Mackie mixer but it’s that much more hassle, and requires extra cords.  That said, I have used cheap LDC’s (MXL, Samson, Bellwanger) as room mic’s, as the M/S mics’s, and very successfully used a MXL1006 about 1′ out from the kick.  I especially like figure 8, or even dynamic omni’s, as room mic’s when in a doorway; if the door leads to a bright room like a tiled bathroom, it can be a cool nat’l ‘verb and I do that pretty often.  I also intend to do a FOK mic soon – front of kit replacing, perhaps, the room mic.  Also, don’t be afraid to not use a track; doya really need the snare mic’s or do the OH’s and room work for it?  Or mebbe just add a little of the bottom for sizzle …  I have, as said, smashed the shite out a open vocal or tom mic and used that for a ‘verb.  And of course, don’t be afraid to ride faders like the long-lost drunken girlfriend of yer dreams; I sometimes bring the OH’s up on fills, the room on a chorus, etc. Also, parallel compression of the entire kit can be used, kinda like a room mic … Finally, I tend to not use effects on drums, other than a plate onna snare (especially if there’s no room mic), with mebbe a RCH on kick.

Can ya tell I love this shite?  thumbsup

The Friday Project Tracks

Pretty much everything listed here can be found at the below links. I mean, you gotta larf, right? Twisted Evil

The Friday Project Tracks

(This Is) Insane
(Unless You Got) Another Dollar
(Unless You Got) Another Dollar
16 Shells
1R16Jam
24-7 365-52
2nite
4 Onna Floor
4 On the Floor
A Compendium of Needs
A Speech Pathologist’s Wet Dream
Absolute Ride
Absolute Ride
After the Dust
After 3
After Two or Three
After the Dust
Ain’t Enuff
Ain’t No Way
Alien Babies
Alky’s
All About Evie
Almost Always
Always a Smile
And I Don’t Wanna See
Angel Fall
Angles
As I See It
Askance
Atmosphere
Attack_w_Grankspoine
Back
Bad Night at the Drive-In
Bad TAttoo
Basement
Beat Feet
Bitches Crystal
Black Mamba
Blow Their Heads
Blues for Claire_w_DinoSr
Bones Inna Box
Borracho Perdido
Bottom
Bottom
Break or Bite_w_Grankspoine
Brung You
Bubble Bath
Bullet-Bit Bulldog
Butterflies_
Candy Pepper
Can’t Say
Car Dealer_w_Grankspoine
CC Spider
Classical
Clutch
Combustion
Come With Me Pleas
Come a Train
Compendium
Completement
Corona
Cream Sherri
Cut Short
Daisies Don’t Talk
Dancing Backwards
Decisions_MEV
Defensive_w_DinoSr
Die (I Wanna)
Do Ya Wanna Go Out Drinking
Doctor, Please
Doin’ The Best I Can
Don’t Bother the Dog
Down
Dream_w_DinoSr
Drunk Outside (It’s Getting Pretty)
eggs_w_Dino,Sr
Electric Chair
End of the Day
Everything Loud_w_DinoSr
Fela
Fix It
Flood My Shit
For Beth
For Our Next Trick
For Ian, RIP
For Ian, RIP_w_Grankspoine
Four On The Floor
Frag
Free Form
Free Time_w_Grankspoine
From All Over My Sins
Fun
Funk Charger
Funky Corona
Garish Girl
Gata Dulce
Get Away, Now
Get It Right (We Can’t)
Ghost Stories
Go Cup
Goin’ In Hot
gREEN eYES
Groovin’ (Keep On)_w_Grankspoine
Half-Way Lazy_w_EdD
Hard & Sad
Have
Head Cold
Hemlock & Carcinogens
Her Dick (She Misses Him)_w_Grankspoine
HeyYo
Hide (Why You Wanna)
Hipster
Hit Hard_w_Grankspoine
Hot Box
I Would Bleed
I Am the Shadow, (Sartre, Too)
I Hope Yer Happy
I Saw Santa Flyin’
I Seen
I Got Nasty Habits
I Could Only Guess
I Will Make You Love Me
I Know A Guy
I Wouldn’t Love
I’ll Be Back
If We’re Gonna Be
In Fives
In There
Inappropriate
Inevitable (w_JazAddict)
Ink
It Doesn’t Add Up
It Ain’t the Thing
Jamesy_w_Grankspoine
Jammin’-Slammin’
Jazzin’ Off
Jes’ A Minute, Baby
Knee Trembler_w_Grankspoine
Knees
Kristen
KristerPhoneCallBlues_w_DinoSr
La Sirena
Lay Down the Law
Lay Here
Less Than Twenty
Let’s Walk Down (to the River)
Like A Rabbit
Like I Do
Like That
Linda or Yoko_New
Losin’ You_w_WRC
Losin’ YouLosin’ You
Lovely (When It Stopped)
Magic Thinking
Marchin’ Orders
Marta’s Pills
Mighta Helped It Along
Money & a Mixed Drink
Morphine
Mr. Meter_w_Grankspoine
Mushroom Sally
My Piece
My Morning Light
My Synesthesia
My Rules
No Room_w_WRC
No Evidence
Not Sure
Not Like (You Used to Be)
Oh, Mary_w_Grankspoine
On the Level Here
On the Floor
One Stem
One of the Old Boys
One-Armed Driver
Painful
Painted on the Walls
Paper Daughter
Parody
Perhaps & Perchance
Perhaps & Perchance
Pick Up the Check, Lady
Pictures (Make alotta Money)_w_Dino,Sr.
Pig
Pineapple
Poop-C
Poozle
Pulling For You (w_EmilyV)
Punk Enuff
Pushin’ Fire
Pussy Riot
RazzyStarLIVE
Reason No. 1
Robbie
Sartre
Say Now
SC
Scraps
Second Line
See Ya
See-Thru’s
Seriously
Shake My Hand
Short Stuff
Sink Me
Skin Divin’
Smilin’
Soiled Dove
Some Possibilities
Spanakopita
Spinal Crap
Spit
Spitting Out Blood
Stay Frosty
Still & All
Stray Cat Blooze
Stuff
Stupid Inna Suit
Sweetness
That Hangover (was waiting)
The Door Jam
The Screamin’ Meemies
The Teddy-Bear Dance
The B-Part
The Bloody Mist
The Devil Is Afoot
The Green Velvet Wind
The Last Ditch
The Skins
The Spike Hotel
The Zoo
The Bumble
The Curtain
The Ready_w_Grankspoine
The Tune-up
The Way of It
The Third Thing
The Screamin’ Meemies
The Devil Is Afoot
The Dust
The Chicken Wire Failed
The Itchin’ Hour
The Swamp
The Wet Spot
The Good Stuff
The River (Let’s Walk Down)
The Good Stuff
The River_w_DinosSr
The Spike Hotel
The Man Who_w_Grankspoine
The River (Let’s Walk Down)
This Churning March
This One
Tight Pants (Yer Momma’s Got)
Time Doesn’t Pass (We Do)
Tired
Too Broke To Bury
Too Thin
Towers Down
Tranquila
Trouser Mouse
Tuff Enuff (You Ain’t)
Turtle Love
We Grieve
WhatItIs
Wheels
When We Started Out
White Lady
Woah, Yeah
Wounding You
Ya Gotta Go Around
YGBT
You Gotta Know This
You Know It (You Think)
You Had Us Beat_w_DinoSr
You Cut My Heart Out_w_Dino,Sr
Your Head
Yours Is the Stuff
Zero Signature
_________________
TFPTHDvlaymanblog