The loneliness of the producer

So I’m inna new band now a cuppla months (still no band name!), playing bass and singing BV’s on another’s guy’s songs, and that’s pretty weird to me.

And after a month (the delay mebbe tells some, eh?) they give me their recent demo, and it’s mebbe not so good.

And so I say, I can do it better, and they take the bait and now we’ve 95% of the tracks done on 11 songs, and I’m 2/3 done mixing the thing, and having a ball.

But what I’m posting about, then?

The loneliness of it!

I mean, we’ve sat down a cuppla times and done the basics together – the toughest part was developing the drum mixes (all essentially the same, as ll tracks recorded at the same place on the same day – a basement, no less), perhaps best illustrated when I note that the drummer’s reference tracks were initially Porcaro with Joni Mitchell. Asked to get a little more real, last week he brought me some Steely Dan. Laughing

But I think we’ve done pretty well with the drum sub-mix, if not quite that good.

If only I had placed the kick mic where I wanted it, and not where the drummer said … Rolling Eyes

But stuff like recording a kiddie tom played with hands and then having to figure out that what the intent was was a bongo sound, and then getting it (tons of EQ, some heavy compression and limiting).

Or the keys being played solid thru the whole song and then being told they’re too much, they need to be edited – but I didn’t play ’em that way, the guy who wants ’em edited did! Twisted Evil

Out of sync start-stop parts that I diplomatically don’t mention I had to tighten …

The odd drum fill or word or guitar note I hadda fly in.

Mouth-noises and un-intended fades when the singer moved off the mic.

Out of tune, out of time guitars.

The incremental adjustments of effects and volume levels (guitars are never loud enuff for guitarists, of course) …

The bass I played, of course, was done perfectly – all first takes and needed no EQ, edits, dubs or adjustments at all. Not to mention my stellar BV’s being perfectly in time, key and phrasing on every pass. Twisted Evil

I’ve probably got over 80 hours into this project, more than 50 by myself, and I’m just the bassist/BV’s with one co-write.

Did I mention I’m having a ball?
Very Happy

Lou, we hardly knew you; L. Reed, RIP


On the few and far between reviews I ever get, I’m compared.

More importantly, as irascible as he was, he’s a main influence on me as a writer and vocalist.

Most important, I’m a huge fan, now with a broken heart, for now.


Evilbog issues, again

Bought a Altec 1589b on 8-31-13 after winning the bid, paying within a few hours, deliverable last Friday, the 6th, by priority mail.No response to 3 “Shipped yet?” inquiries, I hadda “open a case”.

Is it just me, or does it seem about 10-15% of purchases of used music equip. fall through?

Someone told me music equip, cars and, I think watches, get the most complaints.

Special thank you to the seller, turkboys who can’t even be bothered to offer an excuse for taking my money without sending the item.

eBogshite foller-up

I posted this in response to another’s comments – you’ll understand the gist of it:


I can see your point, of course I can. The analysis fails, I think, to the extent that I have a 100% record, and am clearly not trying to rip anyone off. As a matter of fact, I chose not to return the item – which is crippled but functional – because I need it, because I don’t want a gap in access to the stuff I use it for, and to make the point that it’s not about the money.

And I understand the point about their lack of QC, altho’ I admit I assumed they had some. But I bet they would handle the sale of a defective new item the same way. That they took my money, don’t want to timely return it, and then want to freeze the same sum on my credit card is, IMNSFHO, outrageous.

Their knee-jerk handling of the issue, IMO, makes ’em jerk-offs.

As far as my tone, you did note that the eBog writer complimented me? Ha! Of course I was sarcastic – I saw where this was going to the extent that I was gonna win it all or lose it all, once the seller’s drone gave me a ultimatum.

I don’t ever accept ultimatums (something I probably encounter more often than most because of my field of business).

And, I s’pose, I prefer to tilt windmills.

In any event, I hope it’s a useful case study of a situation where the consumer will possibly, even likely, get burned.

And so, to that extent and as regards commercial sellers thereon, fuck buying on eBay.

(Amazon is much better, and often cheaper.)

eBogshite redux

Asked some further questions about the last post, I answer:

This particular item was only cheaper because it is “refurb”.  Amazon’s prices are the same as or better, “new”.  I thought that the refurb would be like a used one, re-furb’d and inspected for the few dollars more refurb’d cost vs. used.

The immediate billing is fine – but why can’t I get an immediate refund?  Or at least a simultaneous?  They know by the registered shipping when it’s shipped.  If the argument is they wanna be sure than, 1. they assume I’m a thief, and, 2. they are stalling, and finally, 3. they are operating on my money without paying interest.

The sales tax advantage is mutual – I don’t agree to give up my rights of parity in the sales contract because they are without a physical store.

What should have been done? Immediate payback, a discount, a partial refund and keep the item, etc.  Instead, I got a demand that I pay the return postage for their defect, than an offer to pay that was retracted, a stalling process, the loud implication that I’m a thief, insults to my intelligence and honor, rudeness, and the theft of the use of my money for the time of dispute to resolution.  Did you note my final decision?  I’m not even going to return the item on their terms – it’s the principle.

Bottom line: I mean what I said – it ain’t worth it, never again, and they are taking advantage of the consumer who is gambling that the lower price justifies the risk. IMO, it does not, nor does eBog adequately protect the consumer in this situation – as rare a situation as it might be.

Oh yeah, and screw

My problem with eBay, the evil Bog

This is a compilation of messages on the eBay site. It’s long, but I believe instructive in the risk you take as a buyer, and I hope it’s amusing, because I had fun!


So I bought a refurb’ed “Western Digital WD TV Live Plus built in WI-FI Streaming HD Media Player 1080P” from a dealer on the E-Bog, at about a US$20 discount.

It’s defective but not unuseable, in that 1 of 2 USB ports doesn’t work.

Here’s our messages:

Sent Date: Jan-22-13 19:39:39 PST


Western Digital WD TV Live Plus built in WI-FI Streaming HD Media Player 1080P

USB port 1 does not work

– mmmeeevvv
Sent Date: Jan-23-13 09:12:15 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Our apologies upon this matter, at this time we can either set up a replacement or a refund for you. Which option would you prefer?


Sent Date: Jan-24-13 04:22:13 PST


Replacement, please.

– mmmeeevvv
Sent Date: Jan-24-13 10:21:51 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Please use the below information to send the item back:

Return Number: XXXXX (Please write this on the outside of the package along with your first and last name and make sure the item is packed safely for return).

Return Address:

Centrix International
La Verne, CA 91750


Let me get this straight:
You want me
1. to return the item at my cost; and,
2. then await shipment of a replacement item that I have already paid for?


I am not your quality-control agent – which you appear to lack – nor am I spending another dime on your defective product.

I will accept a full refund.

I will return the item – without charging you for packing and bringing to the shipper – if you pay return shipping.

– mmmeeevvv

(Stay toont!  Grin)


Sent Date: Jan-24-13 16:25:22 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Give us a email address we can have a return label sent to



I tried and got this message:
For your safety, eBay does not allow the exchange of email addresses in member to member communications . This protects both buyers and sellers by keeping a track record of communications. It also helps ensure that transactions happen on eBay so buyers and sellers are covered by eBay protection programs.

Please remove the email address and resend your message.

If you want to receive photos from another eBay member, you do not need to share your email address. Buyers and sellers can now attach images to messages sent from eBay by using the “Attach Photos” button.

– mmmeeevvv

(I’m just waiting to see how they reply to that!  Grin)

Sent Date: Jan-24-13 16:25:22 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Give us a email address we can have a return label sent to

Sent Date: Jan-24-13 16:53:50 PST


I tried and got this message:
For your safety, eBay does not allow the exchange of email addresses in member to member communications . This protects both buyers and sellers by keeping a track record of communications. It also helps ensure that transactions happen on eBay so buyers and sellers are covered by eBay protection programs.

Please remove the email address and resend your message.

If you want to receive photos from another eBay member, you do not need to share your email address. Buyers and sellers can now attach images to messages sent from eBay by using the “Attach Photos” button.

– mmmeeevvv
Sent Date: Jan-25-13 09:18:22 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Write it like this:

for example… john dot doe at gmail dot com


Now, obviously this guy can’t figure me out.  So, do I give my email for the $64, or just use the thing with a crippled USB and give them a shite rating for selling defective merch, trying to con me into paying for the return, refusing to return my money immediately and/or replace the object without my returning first, etc.

That’s the last time I buy refurb offa E-bog!  mad)


Sent Date: Jan-27-13 22:22:29 PST


How quickly do I receive refund if I ship this back to you?

– mmmeeevvv
Sent Date: Jan-28-13 08:37:03 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Refund will be done as soon as we receive the returned item



So we are clear, because of your failure to quality-check your refurbished merchandise, my choice – now that you have agreed to pay return shipping – is that I await the refund of my immediately-paid-to-you money until you receive the return of the defective merchandise, or continue to use the defective item (to the extent it is usable) and give you a bad rating.

– mmmeeevvv


Sent Date: Jan-28-13 11:05:24 PST
Dear mmmeeevvv,

You can either send the item back and give us your email address to send a pre paid postage label and get the item back so we can refund you, or you can keep the item, your choice. However by 30 days your warranty with us is gone.



I find that incredibly unfair.

How about you send a replacement item immediately, in that I note that despite my immediate payment, the item was not received for 11 days, and was clearly not quality checked despite being “refurbished”.

To the extent the item works defectively, I can use it until the replacement is received, and will then mail the defective one back immediately.

I do not see why I should be without the item, and/or without my money and therefore ability to replace the item, due to your business practices.

– mmmeeevvv


Sent Date: Jan-28-13 13:19:52 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

In any store in order to exchange an item you must present the defective merchandise first. Asking us to send you a replacement without a returned item is like walking into a retail store and telling the store you want to exchnage a product but you will return the other one when you go home and test it and then you promise to return it. That is not how things work.

You also say this is because of our “Business Practices” but in reality this can happen to anyone. We do test the players to prevent returns as much as possible, but we are not batting 100% either. No one is. Any store no matter how big or small when working with electronics this kind of thing happens. The item you received comes from Western Digital Direct we don’t buy from 3rd parties we are direct Authorized Resellers.

My staff has offered to provide prepaid postage so the exchange is free of cost. I think that is more than fair. I do see your point of view also tho and am willing to work with you to resolve this. So how about this. Since ebay only protects the buyer and not the seller in returns this is why we have the item come back first, but if your willing to provide us a credit card on file to put on Hold in Case the defective one isn’t returned then I will ship you the replacement today. I will even cover 3 day air shipping to you. If you would like to take this option please contact me at 909-480-3000 ext 107

Thank You


Dear mmmeeevvv,

Another option we have is we can do a advanced replacement where we ship the item today, all we request is your CC info in the case that you will return this item. If the item does not arrive to us we will take the funds out of the account. If it does arrive then the hold on the Card will be lifted. Would you like to do that?



In any store in order to exchange an item you must present the defective merchandise first.
**You are not “any store”, and your rational illustrates why I do not think buying from you was a good idea.

Asking us to send you a replacement without a returned item is like walking into a retail store and telling the store you want to exchange a product but you will return the other one when you go home and test it and then you promise to return it.
***Asking you, a business already giving me a hard time – starting with expecting me to pay return postage until I called you on that, a 5 day delay to ship so that the item is received 11 days later despite the representation of , “Our goal is to ship the next business day …”  – is not like what you say, but rather is asking you to fulfill your commitment of delivering the not-defective product I bought, and letting me use the defective-but-usable one until the good one arrives. Think of my retaining the first one until the second is received as a loaner, which I feel I am fairly requesting in that you provided a defective item in the first place.  It didn’t occur to me to keep the first until the second arrives and I can test *it* – are you afraid, as I now am, that it will be defective, also?

That is not how things work
***However you think things work is irrelevant to me.  I know how they ought to work, starting with proper quality control and including trust in a paying customer and that customer’s satisfaction.

It is your business practices that are at issue, not mine. You choose to do business on E-Bay, as I did (altho’ I shall no longer buy refurbished anything, nor from you again) and while I understand your perceived need to protect yourself, it is insulting, unfair, and a rip-off to me, the consumer.

Let me note that contrary to E-Bay policies you have not only requested my email – which good sense and privacy concerns restrain me from forwarding – but now want my Credit Card number. Unacceptable.

– mmmeeevvv


Sent Date: Jan-28-13 14:35:52 PST

Dear mmmeeevvv,

Our staff has already provided you all return details already. And provided you prepaid postage.

We are now just awaiting you to return the item. You are right you are not obligated to provide us with a credit card. This was just an option I offered you to get done what you wanted.

We are not getting anywhere arguing back and forth. These are the only options we are presenting you. They are 1 to replace the unit, 2 to refund you fully (In both option we provided you a return label to cover all cost) And we still leave the Advance replacement option on the table.

The choice is yours. If you are not satisfied with these then you may contact ebay and open a resolution center case and let them decide how to proceed

Thank You
Victor Lopez


Just to document my position relative to your inaccurate and slanted statements below:

1. you have *not* provided return postage – you have *offered* to, if I give you my email (in violation of Ebay policy) which I decline to do;

2. “replacing the unit” still results in me being without such unit –  as stated, it’s partially defective as you sold it to me but currently usable – until I receive another questionable item from you, which you won’t ship until you receive the defective unit you so belatedly sent me the first time;

3. “refunding” still results in me being without such unit with you holding onto my money preventing me from purchasing a new non-defective unit elsewhere until you decide to refund me, which you won’t do until you receive the defective unit.

If any of the above is incorrect, please advise immediately.

In light of the ultimatum you present – “These are the only options we are presenting you” – I will make no counter-offer.

Finally, I note that your frustration – so evident in the tone of your last message – is less that 1% of mine, dealing with your “business practices”.

– mmmeeevvv


From:  eBay
Sent:  Jan-30-13 08:43 AM
Hi mmmeeevvv,

We let the seller know the item wasn’t as described.

The seller has offered you a full refund for the purchase price plus original shipping if you return the item. To get your refund, ship the item back to the seller. You will need to cover the cost of returning the item. Make sure you ship the item by Feb 02, 2013.

Refund information:
Once the item is delivered to the seller, you will receive a full refund of $64.00.The refund will include the purchase price plus original shipping.

You can view the details of this case and learn what you need to do to ship the item back in the Resolution Center.
The seller’s new offer is worse than their last offer made directly to me re postage and shipping – please read the messages; this offer is refused.

Seller belatedly sent a defective item and now refuses to pay return postage, refuses to refund money until receipt of returned item; refuses to ship replacement until receipt of returned item. This was never agreed to.

Bad business, unscrupulous practice by over-reaching seller who without notice has retracted its offer. I want 100% refund + return postage after which I will return item and leave no feedback.


Hello MIchael,
We’re contacting you about the case you opened for Western Digital WD TV Live Plus built in WI-FI Streaming HD Media Player 1080P.
As a courtesy, we’re covering your return shipping costs by providing you a prepaid label to return the item. It’s important that you ship the item back in the next 7 days so you can get a refund.

Be sure to pack the item carefully and securely and to include all parts of the item. The seller must receive the item in the same condition that you received it for you to be eligible for your refund.
To print the label, paste the link below into your browser:
Attach the label to the box, and send the item back to the seller using United Parcel Service (UPS) shipping.
We’ll enter the tracking information from the label into the Resolution Center. Once we have confirmation that the item has been delivered, we’ll refund you within 3 days for the cost of the item plus original shipping (as long as the seller hasn’t issued you a refund).
If you decide not to use our prepaid shipping label, you’ll need to pay for shipping and add tracking information to your case. If your transaction is $250.00 or over, you must ship with signature confirmation.
To add tracking information to your case:
1. Go to the Resolution Center:
2. Click the “Take action” link to the right of the case.
3. Click the blue “Respond to case” button.
4. Select the “Provide a tracking number” option.
5. Enter the tracking number and shipping carrier (such as USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.) into the boxes.
6. Click the “Submit” button.
You can check the status of the case by going to the Resolution Center:
Here are the details of this case:
Claim ID: XXXX
Item: Western Digital WD TV Live Plus built in WI-FI Streaming HD Media Player 1080P
I hope this helps explain how to use the prepaid shipping label.
If you have any questions, please click “Customer Support” at the top of most eBay pages.
eBay Customer Service
I feel this is an unfair resolution in that my money is tied up until the seller receives the returned item + up to 3 days to refund me.

This is unacceptable; they delivered 11 days after purchase despite promises and I will again be without the use of the item and with out MY MONEY, as stated above.

If it is the best that you can do, please advise so that I can close my Ebay account; you will have lost an Ebay customer.

Dear Michael, Thank you for contacting eBay Customer Support in regard to the case XXXXXXX. I understand that you are asking for a full refund for the returned item. I know how frustrating is it when you have done your part and you still have not yet received the requested refund. Let me help you with your concern.Before anything else, I would like to thank you for being loyal to eBay for 551 days now. Please know that the professional manner in which you have handled yourself in this situation is most commendable. We thank you for your trust in our site and we guarantee you that will find eBay as one of the best place to shop online.Upon further review, I notice that we have asked you to return the item for a full a refund as you have received a non working device. As a courtesy, we have issued a shipping label to compensate the return shipping costs in returning the item. We have given you until February 10, 2013 to return the item.Please do understand that for us to hold the seller accountable for issuing you a refund a full refund, we need you to send the item back to the seller. Once we confirm the delivery, we will issue you the full refund which will take effect within 3 days after this claim has been closed. Michael, I’m sorry to hear that you’d like to close your eBay account as you are not satisfied with our service however you are a valued eBay member, so if there’s anything we can do to change your mind please let us know.I trust that this information is helpful. If you have further questions please do reply to this email. Thanks for choosing eBay.Sincerely,Romanina D.eBay Customer Support


Once again, Ebay’s response is unacceptable.  This seller was rude, duplicitous, delaying, clearly and repeatedly breached Ebay’s seller’s rules, reneged on a prior offer, and has had the use of my money – immediately paid and collected – for over a month, and Ebay’s best solution is that I wait another two weeks for the refund.

Therefore, be advised that not only will I never purchase from that seller again, I will never purchase from any such commercial seller on Ebay, and will so advise anyone who will listen.

I truly feel that you (Ebay) fell on your face in this matter, I am extremely unhappy with both the dishonesty and gaming of the seller, and Ebay’s enabling of same.

That Ebay does not adequately protect the consumer is indisputable through this example; I am happy it was such a relatively nominal loss I have sustained.

Shame on both of you.

Finally, I wash my hands of this matter. The seller may keep the money and choke on it – I shall do my best to publicize this experience.

(Smile, and drink heavily!  Grin)

Anatomy of a Band Break-Up

The following is a copy of relevant posts from a thread at; others’ posts are in quotes, names are changed, etc.  That said, larf and learn!

So EX-Drummer sends a email talking about our band disfunction, mentioning how they jammed with his neighbor Saturday when I was unavailable and suggesting the guy might wanna join us.

My response, just scented:
And you are right, I am impatient. Frankly, we have not been getting together as much as before, and we have accomplished less as a trio, much less as TFP.

The last two sessions with EX-Bassist I felt like we were just starting over in that we hada re-learn
everything because of the delay between, and everyone’s failure to learn the songs. For me, I just need the that the chords are correct, and we hit the changes. I don’t obsess over particular bass lines or leads or beats – the same song can be reggae or metal as far as I’m concerned. Well, not *metal*. ;-D But you have to pardon my amusement when I’m told, “It goes *this* way”, and my frustration when we keep repeating something to get it *that* way.

Whatever we started out to be, other than the abortion that was OLDguitarist, we have long been a writing and recording project, whether from structured songs or improv. And I’ve actually invested a chunk of change to maximize that, as well as a lot of time and effort learning the recording/mixing process, and even learning to play bass.

I’m not sure what we are now.
Are we working toward gigs, or a album, or just jamming?
I’m not sure of the point of beating rehearsals into the ground …

As well, please keep in mind that a 2 hour practice is 4 hours to me, when packing and
traveling are factored in.

I haven’t met NEWguitarist, of course, but it might be a good thing to get him involved. I feel a bit stymied lately in that I feel like I’m excercising instead of playing music. The repetition bores me, and I can’t cut loose when I have to keep cueing and directing, and that in the face of some of the push back … a fourth person might make it easier and hopefully fill out the sound, tighten us up, etc. We both get along with Other GuitaristSr, but he would not, I think, tolerate EX-Bassist well, and anyway is not too reliable.

You said, “However, I think we need to slightly tweak our composition process, especially if we want to keep playing with EX_Bassist.” For me, again, there’s been no “composition process” – we’re stuck on the same songs that are already written and arranged months ago, last session even simplifying them.

I would probably be happier only jamming, improv’ing, rather than perfecting song performances just for ourselves. Especially if I can record the jams!

But I’ve never been anything but honest with you, and I intend to keep that approach. Frankly, I’ve not made up my mind if I do want to “keep playing with EX_Bassist.” He’s certainly damn good in his funk playing and, if he’s interested, I’m sure he could play anything. But I’m not sure he actually likes what we’ve been playing. And I get the impression he doesn’t like me, which is fine, but doesn’t make me wanna try to be inna band with the guy, especially when I feel like he’s gonna explode and quit any minute, anyway.

And I realize that’s awkward, the guy having just moved near you, etc. But telling you straight, I’m willing to give it a bit more time but I’m not necessarily optimistic. It may be that you two guys are better off forming a band with XXX or someone else; if so, I’d be willing to try just playing guitar for ya’s, if it gets things moving.

That absolutely doesn’t mean I wanna quit jamming with *you*, either, as the TFP we’ve been, if it comes to that. I love your drumming! And you and I get along well. And I have no intention of abandoning my music; I’m just not sure the three of us are destined to make it, or me to lead us in doing so.

Or if you wanna just end it now, it’s been a good and successful run, no hard feelings, let me know and I just gotta come and pick up my shite.
I kinda feel like there’s a bit of a power struggle goin’ on, in that this bassist – who I am admittedly now resenting – is effectively controlling our time together. And therefore my music.

In my experience, most drummers have they own space, altho’ whether I can find a drummer as good and as cool as EX-Drummer is questionable …
Re the jam thing, yep, that’s what we have mutually suggested, EX-Drummer and I. Thing is, they also have this idear of getting a set together, for unknown reasons. And the problem with that is, as I bitch above, they seem to only learn and practice when we are together, what means we spend 2-3 hours working on 5 songs, with no time left to jam. EX-Bassist is a bit of a perfectionist, EX-Drummer is pretty easy-going, and I’m loose azza stool what ain’t give you piles (hard for you to imagine, eh? ) Far as I’m concerned, we could do the whole time together as improv, as long as I can record.

By “space” I meant the same as you. In my experience, most drummers that are in their 40’s and older have houses they bought or rent with the idear of being able to play.
“If they are ‘getting a set’ together, perhaps they’ve got a gig lined up.

I’d go for that – imagine exposing your original material to an audience that isn’t just the five of us on this site! Sell some CDs, why dontcha? (Sorry, I’ve got the Supremes playing in the background!)”

You misunderstood.

They jammed once with the neighbor – they wanna getta set together with me.

For unknowed reasons.

Hmm. I think they’d have mentioned a gig for us.

And what I mean by “why?” is, we are like we’re preppin’ for gigs, without none.

I believe we are in agreement we are not interested in Tuesday-night opening slot-type stuff, but thinking more of a one-of’s or house parties; none have been mentioned.

It feels like a football team practicing with no games scheduled.
“Ever notice the guy who suggests gigs, is the one with the least gear to pack? Like the harmonica player?”

Yep, I’m the former, and I fear the other two are exhibiting a touch of the latter.

I mean, the ideal resolution here, for me, would be to just have fun jams that we record, and then I pastiche into songs. Somehow, EX-Bassist apparently anyway, has decided that approach (thet EX-Drummer and I have taken for some 3+ years now) is fine to demo the songs, but then we should, for some reason, learn them. It’s unclear if we are learning them to re-record, or to perform; those guys have never addressed the issue. I went along assuming that it was to re-record, but started bridling at the time it’s taking to get down the material.

I mean, I have no problem admitting I’m not Brahms, or Brian Wilson – this is relatively simple stuff and even written to those guy’s strengths. But they are not accomplishing their own goal of actually learning the songs, and thus, :he says so egotistically:, wasting my time.
“Because they’re preventing you indulge your main strength – which is spontaneous creativity?
I’m sure there were times when Brahms and B Wilson would’ve appreciated a spot of spontaneity.”

No, because I get bored playing the same thing over and over, right inna row, with false starts and stupid mistakes.
Nope, ain’t heard from Ex-Drummer, what means he’s prob’ly considering his response, what is like the gurrl ya ask to marry who says, “I’ll think about it.”

I feel bad for him. I tried to warn him when the bassist, who at that point had jammed with us twice, said he was looking at houses nearby. I’m sure Ex-Drummer feels some obligation there, or at least awkward about it.
Then he’s got me, a certifiable DOOSH who, nonetheless, has been his musical partner for nearly 4 years.
And I’m sure he’s got his issues with me – he’s just such a nice guy that we’ve not once in that time hadda argument …
Aiight, I don’t wanna quote EX-Drummer, so I paraphrased (in quotes). Here’s my reply:
Pardon the length, but for clarity, I wanna address each point you make.

*** Yes? ;-D

“no sense getting together”
*** That’s fine, altho’ please see below.

” you are coming from a different place, different approach, want something a bit more substantial”
*** I’m puzzled why you are saying this. I’m coming from the same place as always, and you and
I have always created our music the same way. As far as me wanting “something a bit more
substantial out of this”, I beg to differ. I was in agreement with you that we should find more
muso’s, expand our boundaries, jam some, record some new songs and have fun doing so. I just
don’t think EX-Bassist is the right guy. I didn’t want to change anything, and to the extent anything
did change, that was based on EX-Bassist.
“priorities, it’s partly my fault”
*** Yep! ;-D And mine.
But seriously, I felt like what we were doing was fine before, and I had hoped that adding EX-Bassist
would improve what we were doing. It didn’t. It felt like we were working to become a performance
unit. While a party or a one-of might be fun, I don’t wanna do the bar-band grind again; it’s a
hobby, and it’s meant to be fun. And it wasn’t. And like you, I have kids and a job, also,
and music is absolutely third for me after them.
” keep the TFP online for what it really is — a home based recording project make demos.
send you a track or so every week or so ”
*** Of course I’m interested! And if you are only able to or comfortable with sending me Zoom
tracks, I’ll take ’em gladly! Ideally, tho’, I wanna come, set up to record, and improv as we
always did, and take those improv’s and make songs – what you call “demo’s” (I think of ’em as
children ;-D ) as we did before. We got our best results recording while playing together, and our
best sounds doing it with the microphones, sometimes even with other players. ;-D
That is fun! But if that doesn’t work for you for whatever reason, that’s aiight, also.
“minimize the conflict and not waste your travel time”
***There was never any previous “conflict” between you and I that I recall; certainly we’ve been together
long enuff to say we get along pretty well. I don’t think and hope you don’t think that there’s really a conflict
now, either, just a difference of opinion as to direction, relative to EX-Bassist, along with some miscommunication.
And I never considered my time driving “wasted”, until recently when I left your place the last couple times
feeling so frustrated. I only mentioned travel at all, BTW, to make the point that our recent playing was so
relatively unproductive, and not fun. As in, “I drove two hours for this?”
” not sure how TFP could be anything else”
*** And I didn’t know we were trying to make it anything different! Again, I just thought we were trying to
open it up a bit, and make it better, mebbe even more fun. Seriously, I think TFP as it has been is damn good,
and the fact that players the caliber of WRC and Grankie and Other Guitarists and EX-Bassist wanna collab proves that.
FWIW, I constantly get questions as to why we don’t promote, why we don’t sell stuff, why not press CD’s, set up
a real web-site, why we don’t enter contests or play gigs or make videos, etc. I just wanna make better music,
that’s what it’s about for me. And as good as you and I have been together and sometimes with others, that was
not happening with EX-Bassist.
“as for your stuff”
*** I’m not trying to pick up my toys and go home, you understand. I was trying to make clear that what we have
been doing has not been working, and I think what you were proposing was not gonna work. I just don’t think EX-Bassist
is the right guy for us (as TFP). And so if my decision not to work with EX-Bassist didn’t work for you and you wanted to end
TFP, I meant that I’ll bow out, get out of your hair. But if you and I are gonna continue to play together, to record,
mebbe jam with Other Guitarists or whoever, and often enuff, I’ll leave my stuff there. I’ve not been looking for another jam
situation, I’ve even turned down a few, whatever. But as regards what we were doing B.E. (before EX-Bassist), I was lovin’ it,
would love to continue doing it. But if that’s not gonna happen on, say, a monthly basis or so like before, I’ll pull my shite,
I don’t want you to have to store it at your place. It’s just, as you know, a PITA to carry it back and forth if we are gonna use it …

And to be clear, I’m not blaming EX-Bassist other than to say that we all failed to communicate re expectations, approaches,
preferences, interest, etc. But I hope I don’t sound like a prima donna when I say I do prefer not to play with people
who make me tense, and EX-Bassist makes me tense. FWIW, my friend YYYY and your lawyer friend make me tense, also – playing
with them occasionally is fine but … On the other hand, I liked OLDguitarist  fine (until he hated me ;-D ), and I like
Other Guitarists, too. In retrospect, if we had just jammed with EX-Bassist occasionally, that woulda been better, IMO, but bringing him in so
fast and full time just didn’t/doesn’t feel good to me.

I just wanna jam, improv and improve, create, record, etc., with cool people that are at our level.
Or not – I think that the two of us as TFP (it is “The FRIDAY Project”, remember!) do just fine.
And I hope you and I can continue to do so.
So his response:

I think at least for a little while I would like to jam with [local] musicians and send you [Zoom H2 Tracks]. I don’t disagree that we can work together, but I don’t think u work very well with others, for whatever reason. Since it’s hard to find others to play with, something has to give. I do not have confidence that the next Guy will work either. And for the songs, I think most demonstrate your great recording skills, but they are not finished products. I have always wanted to repeat and perfect, not expand the songlist. Your tendencies I think are different. So for now let’s do as I propose, if you are still willing, at least for now.
My Reply:

You’re pissed, eh?
I don’t want to burn bridges, but in light of your attitude I do want to pick up my equipment, ASAP.
His response:

I’m really am not mad. No hurry with your stuff
My daughter says, “You guys sound like girls.”

My take is, besides being burned out with me (note the little digs), Ex-Drummer really wants to do a band as opposed to a recording project, and he probably feels some pressure (as well as desire) to keep working with EX-Bassist, who just moved in a cuppla blocks from him to, at least in part, join TFP. Not my problem, and to the extent that’s stalkerish and weird, I suspect it may become Ex-Drummer’s.

And there is some irony, of course, in that I brought some 6 or 7 muso’s around, he brought 1 for a cuppla jams, but he concludes I can’t get along with people. And I note that 3 of ’em I brought around stayed, Paul for over a year, Other GuitaristSr now for about 6 months, and EX-Bassist …

Obviously, I’m picky about who I want to get along with. In believe that just because it’s “it’s hard to find others to play with”, does not mean you should accept people you don’t like, when this is meant to be fun.

So anywhat, thanx for listening!

Now, I’m tryna figure out how I want to present alla this in my blog, as I think it’s possibly instructive, certainly amusing ..
“I think most demonstrate your great recording skills, but they are not finished products. I have always wanted to repeat and perfect” and that is where I am 100% with Ex-Drummer.

You love to jam and you are an inspired on-the-fly composer, but you seem almost indecently rushed to move to the next thing. A lot of your work could be really brilliant with some critiquing and reflection and editing and (dare I say it?) re-recording, but if that’s not where you’re at, then don’t go there. Ex-Drummer’s in a different place; part as friends.”


Part of the thing is, see, when it was just the two of us, we’d just jam, and then I’d loop and create songs from the jams. Whenever we tried to re-do those, Ex-Drummer hadda hard time (not least of which was he’ wouldn’t practice w/out me) recreating the songs as composed, the parts, the feel, the changes. In order to keep him interested, then, when it was just the two of us, I did it thru editing. And guess what? It became my preferred approach. The re-recording thing with him was never successful, then, and I see/saw no reason to polish any further than I did, especially when we were contemplating adding another musician – I had a lot of work in songs when Paul joined and then we re-recorded to add his parts, and then I hadda re-do ’em again when he left.

I think that’s made obvious on the songs where Granks is involved, which are more complete.
“If I were you, I’d keep an eye on Craigslist and eBay.”

I’m picking up my stuff tomorrow:

8 mic stands
8 20-30′ cords
powered mixer
wedge monitor
Peavey Transtube 15 w. S/S amp
Musicman HD130 blonde head
1×12″ bottom

It will be interesting to see if Ex-Drummer offers the return of the Senn cans and extension cord he never paid for …

“”Don’t forget the drugs.””

Got it all back, including the cans and cord.

He wanted to talk, I didn’t, just grabbed my shite and goned.

He wanted to talk, I didn’t ….
“That’s for the best … could have led to make/break-up sex and guilt …”
I’m happy and grateful you’re willing to share yer personal experiences, there, friend.


It is a relationship break-up, so the parallels exist, of course.

So now, mebbe I should start sleeping/auditioning around …